Conscription—the compulsory enlistment of citizens for military or other government service—is treated across three episodes of The Bob Zadek Show as a practice that raises fundamental questions about state power, individual liberty, and constitutional authority. The discussions range from historical analysis of American drafts to a proposed modern expansion into mandatory public service, and finally to the constitutional basis for any conscription power at all.
Historical drafts and the myth of popular war
In a June 2018 episode, host Bob Zadek and historian Thaddeus Russell examined the history of conscription in America. Zadek noted that during both the American Revolution and the Civil War, drafted young men could hire substitutes to serve in their place, meaning that those who actually served were not middle class or upper middle class—they bought their way out. This led to riots during the Civil War because it was, in Zadek’s words, a poor person’s war. Zadek characterized the draft as a kind of tax that wealthy people could pay while poor people went to fight Thaddeus Russell on Renegades vs. Conformists (2018).
Russell agreed that substitution was common but added that a significant number of middle- and upper-class people still volunteered during the Civil War, driven by what he called a real democratic ethos. He pointed to generals and officers who lost limbs or their lives in battle, noting that almost to a man they came from well-established wealthy families. Russell observed that 600,000 died in that war and probably twice that many came home missing a limb or an eye. He argued that the ultimate product of democracy is that citizens go to war and kill and die because that is the ultimate commitment—the ultimate democratic citizen is someone willing to go to war for their country.
Russell further argued that there has always been a significant minority who resisted the draft and conscription, and he said he documents those resisters in his book Renegade History and in a work in progress on American foreign policy. He stated that every single draft resister in this country’s history is a national hero, and that they gave up everything. Zadek then noted that Milton Friedman was probably the leading thinker who helped get rid of the draft, speaking and writing eloquently about it being a bad idea in political and economic terms. Russell agreed, saying Friedman called it the worst thing a state can do, and added that the draft is enslavement—temporary, perhaps, but still enslavement because you are forced by the state to risk your life. Russell pointed out that every major war in American history except the Iraq War has had a draft, including the Spanish-American War, World War I, World War II (where two-thirds of soldiers were conscripts), Korea, and Vietnam. He argued that it is hard to call these “the people’s wars” if they all depended on a draft for them to happen.
Zadek remarked that he finds the concept of a popular war strange, and Russell agreed that while some wars have been popular, it is not common. Russell noted that every single country involved in World War II had universal conscription throughout the war, and that with 65 million people dead, it cannot be called a popular war if every army required enslavement. Zadek then raised the counterargument that conscription assures, at least on paper, that rich people have to fight alongside poor people, and that without it you end up with massive social unrest because only poor people fight. Russell responded that this has not happened—the voluntary army since Vietnam is made up almost exclusively of poor or working-class people, yet the last real anti-war protest movement was during Vietnam. Russell said that being forced by the government to fight in a war he opposes is something he cannot imagine, and that it might be the one thing that would cause him to take up arms against his own country.
Mandatory public service: conscription on steroids
A June 2020 episode featured Warren Gibson discussing a commission that had been formed to re-examine the Selective Service System. Zadek explained that the commission went beyond bureaucratic modernization and concluded that the country might be better off with mandatory public service, which he called conscription on steroids. The commission held hearings on whether the country needs mandatory conscription for public service, such as building roads and bridges and cutting down trees. Zadek quoted a phrase from Gibson’s article—“public service, rendering mandatory public service to the nation”—and asked what was wrong with that concept Conscription Gets a Face Lift (2020).
Gibson replied that there is no acting entity called the nation to whom you can serve anything; it is an abstraction. He argued that the reality of the service implied is service to particular politicians and bureaucrats who hold the strings. Gibson said the draft in the Vietnam era was because Lyndon Johnson’s ego was behind the whole thing, and that there is no such thing as national service—only service to the particular politicians and bureaucrats who hold power. Zadek noted that the public service part of the commission’s work was clearly exceeding their authority, as they were formed to do an administrative function and examine the Selective Service System. He mentioned that one of their recommendations was to include women, which scared people, and that of the 164 recommendations they made, very few actually dealt with the draft—almost all dealt with a national civil service system, employing more government employees and paying them more. Zadek framed the subject as affecting every 18-year-old in America: mandatory public service, and asked whether the country should go in the same direction as Western Europe, where 18-year-olds are required to give up an hour of their life in the service of some bureaucrat or group of bureaucrats.
Constitutional authority and the Necessary and Proper Clause
A December 2021 episode featured Ilan Wurman discussing conscription in the context of constitutional interpretation. Zadek asked when government—intending to capture both states and the federal government—has the constitutional power to compel citizens to work for the government. Wurman admitted he could not remember the exact language used in his work, but noted that in the introduction they mentioned assuming there is a power of conscription, and that in the Bill of Rights-type section they clarified that you can have conscientious objections and be exempt from the draft The Conservative Constitution (2021).
Wurman then explored where Congress gets the power to conscript people into service. He said the argument would have to be the Necessary and Proper Clause, and there is a question as to whether that is a successful argument. Congress can raise and support armies and navies, but it does not say it can raise armies through conscription. If it can do that, it must be through the Necessary and Proper Clause, which gives Congress the power to make all laws necessary and proper to effectuate its enumerated powers. Wurman explained that the principal thrust of the clause is that Congress can take actions necessary and proper to effectuate its enumerated powers, but that original history shows it is a grant of implied powers only—meaning it must be connected to an enumerated power and can only be an implied power, which is a lesser power, not a great substantive independent prerogative that you would expect to be textually specified.
Wurman illustrated this with an analogy: if Bob authorized him to come to Bob’s office and pick up a book, he would have the implied power to move books around to look for it, but if the door were locked, he could not get a battering ram and bash the door in, because the power to break down the door is such a great substantive independent thing that if it had been authorized, you would expect it to be textually enumerated. He applied this to conscription: the question is whether the power to conscript is a great substantive independent power that you would expect to be textually enumerated, or a sufficiently lesser power that it can be implied to effectuate the power to raise and support armies and navies. Wurman said he does not have an answer to that, calling it a hard question under the Necessary and Proper Clause, and suggested it might make a good exam question for his students.
Across episodes
The topic of conscription appears in three episodes spanning 2018 to 2021. The 2018 episode with Thaddeus Russell focuses on the history of the draft and the myth of popular war; the 2020 episode with Warren Gibson addresses a modern proposal for mandatory public service; and the 2021 episode with Ilan Wurman examines the constitutional basis for conscription. The excerpts show no development or change in the argument across these episodes—each guest approaches the topic from a different angle, but the underlying libertarian skepticism toward state compulsion remains consistent.
What the sources do not cover
The excerpts do not provide the exact text of the commission’s recommendations, the name of the commission, or the specific legislation that may have been proposed. They do not state which amendment or constitutional provision the Supreme Court has relied on in conscription cases, nor do they name any court decision upholding or rejecting the draft. The excerpts also do not cover the mechanics of how a modern mandatory public service program would be administered, nor do they address the details of conscientious objection beyond Wurman’s brief mention. The ending of the 2020 episode breaks off mid-sentence, leaving the discussion of Western Europe incomplete.