Public schools, which guests on The Bob Zadek Show refer to as “government schools,” are government-run, government-funded educational institutions to which families are assigned based on where they live. The show has treated the topic primarily through the lens of school choice—the proposal that education funding should follow the student rather than the institution. The debate involves questions about how schools are funded, who opposes choice and why, and what mechanisms like vouchers and Education Savings Accounts would change.
The case for school choice
Corey DeAngelis, described by Bob Zadek as an adjunct scholar at Cato for the Center of Educational Freedom and author of School Choice Myths, argued that public schools are not “public” in any meaningful sense because they discriminate based on zip code and are not open to everyone. He said they are run, operated, regulated, assigned, compelled, and funded by the government, and noted that Milton Friedman also used the term “government schools.” Students, Not Systems (2022)
DeAngelis explained that the United States funds the institution regardless of how well it meets the needs of individual families and regardless of whether the family chooses to send their child there. He described school choice as “funding students instead of institutions,” meaning that if a family’s residentially assigned school does not work—whether because of bullying, political indoctrination, or failure to teach basic reading, writing, and arithmetic—the money should follow the child to whatever educational institution works best, including charter schools, private schools, homeschooling, unschooling, microschools, or pandemic pods. Students, Not Systems (2022)
He compared K-12 education to other taxpayer-funded programs that already give recipients choice among providers: Pell grants for higher education, the GI Bill for veterans, Head Start and state-funded pre-K programs, and food stamps. In each case, he said, the funding goes to the individual, who can choose a public or private provider. He argued that the disconnect—people supporting choice in pre-K and higher education but opposing it in K-12—exists because K-12 has an entrenched special interest that profits from families being unable to direct their education dollars elsewhere. Students, Not Systems (2022)
Bob Zadek added the VA healthcare system, Medicaid, and Section 8 housing as further examples. He said veterans under the VA are told they can only get healthcare through the monopoly system and cannot get private healthcare, and that there was an enormous hue and cry that veterans should be allowed to take the benefit into the private sector. Under Medicaid, he said, the patient can pick any doctor who accepts the compensation, and under Section 8, the tenant can pick the apartment. He characterized school choice as a proven system that Americans have long accepted in almost every other area of welfare-type benefits, but not in K-12. Students, Not Systems (2022)
Mechanisms: vouchers and ESAs
DeAngelis described how voucher programs work: the child’s education dollars currently go to a residentially assigned government-run school, but under a school choice mechanism, that same funding follows the child to wherever the family chooses. The traditional public school remains an option, in which case nothing changes. To make programs politically feasible, he said, they are often designed to provide a taxpayer savings—sometimes 80 percent of what would have been spent in the traditional public school system, sometimes 50 percent—so that the public schools and the taxpayer both keep some of the money. Students, Not Systems (2022)
Education Savings Accounts differ from vouchers in that the money goes to an account the family operates rather than coming as a voucher to pay private school tuition. DeAngelis said ESAs can be used for private school tuition and fees but also for special needs therapies, online learning, homeschool expenses, microschools, unschooling, or pandemic pods, making them more flexible and customizable. He noted that regulations require government-approved education expenditures, so the money cannot be used for groceries or a big-screen TV, and that fraud would carry legal consequences. He also described tax-credit scholarships as a privately funded mechanism in which donors give to a scholarship-granting organization, families receive those private dollars, and donors get a tax benefit. Students, Not Systems (2022)
Opposition and the defunding argument
DeAngelis identified teachers unions as the main opponents of school choice. He said they fight against allowing funding to follow the child because they would lose the geographic monopoly they currently have through residential assignment to government-run schools, which are more likely to staff people from the teachers union—meaning less union dues and less political power for union bosses. He said they repeat myths even though the evidence and basic logic take those myths down easily. Students, Not Systems (2022)
The biggest myth, he said, is that school choice defunds public schools. His response: school choice does not defund public schools; public schools defund families. School choice initiatives reallocate dollars back to the rightful owners, the families. He compared it to grocery stores: no one would argue that allowing people to choose their grocery store defunds Walmart, because Walmart does not own your food stamps. He said the money does not belong to any institution—not private schools, not charter schools, not government schools—it belongs to the families. Students, Not Systems (2022)
He offered a second response: people who say public schools are great and that we do not need school choice, while also saying school choice defunds public schools, are contradicting themselves. If public schools are so great, why would people leave when given the option? He said surveys show about half of parents in traditional public schools would choose something else if money were not an issue, which he called an admission that families would leave. Students, Not Systems (2022)
His third response was mathematical: schools are funded based on student enrollment counts, but not completely. Georgetown University estimated that in most states, about 60 to 80 percent of funding is based on enrollment. So when a student leaves through a voucher program, the traditional public school keeps 20 to 40 percent of the funding for a student no longer there, meaning per-pupil spending actually increases. He compared this to Safeway keeping 20 percent of your grocery bill after you switch to Trader Joe’s, which he said any grocery store would love. Students, Not Systems (2022)
Competition versus democracy
In a 2014 episode, Bob Zadek framed the issue as competition versus the backbone of democracy. He said he is not anti-public education per se but is pro-increased competition, supporting anything that creates a competitive environment so that nobody can take their job for granted. Aren’t Men Entitled to Due Process on Campus? (2014)
John Rothmann responded that competition already exists—public schools, private schools, parochial schools—and that Zadek’s envisioning of competition is absolutely essential, but he reminded Zadek that public education is the backbone of American democracy, and that is why he supports it. Aren’t Men Entitled to Due Process on Campus? (2014)
Zadek closed the episode by thanking listeners and saying he would be back next Sunday. Aren’t Men Entitled to Due Process on Campus? (2014)
Across episodes
The topic appears in a 2014 episode with John Rothmann and a 2022 episode with Corey DeAngelis. The 2014 treatment is a brief exchange about competition and democracy; the 2022 treatment is a detailed exposition of school choice mechanisms, the defunding argument, and the role of teacher unions. The excerpts show no development of the same question across episodes—the earlier episode touches the topic only in closing remarks, while the later episode treats it as the main subject.
What the sources do not cover
The excerpts do not state when public schools were founded, what specific legislation governs them, or what any court case has held about their funding or operation. They do not give the name of any bill, the date of any voucher program’s enactment beyond a reference to Milwaukee in the early 1990s, or the outcome of any election or legislative vote. The excerpts also do not cover the details of how public schools are administered at the state or local level, nor do they provide data on student outcomes in public versus private schools.